Curse

Dae GW · Dec 18, 2008, 06:54 AM // 06:54

Hi all!

I want to become a legendary vanquisher, and well yes, i cán actually vanquish, done multiple hard area's already ( Eotn, desolation etc. ) But i was searching what are popular ( non gimmick like sab/discordway ) balanced builds and team setups for your heroes.
I was thinking about 1 warrior, you send him in the mob and he tanks, while i ( monk ) protect him. 1 Fast cast interrupter/hardress. And one minion master necromancer.

What do you guys use for balanced vanquishing?
Thanks,
Dae

daze · Dec 18, 2008, 07:18 AM // 07:18

I use discordway, and i have 3 canthan areas left until legendary vanquisher. As boring as vanquishing is, i think vanquishing with the "tank and spank" team you are describing would take much longer and in turn be twice as mind numbing.

Dungeons are places for running balanced/tuned builds. Vanquishing is all gimmick time.

Pocketmancer · Dec 18, 2008, 07:38 AM // 07:38

Seconding what Daze mentioned, vanquishing is pretty much just running a gimmick build if you want to make good time. There's no elixir build set up that works well everywhere no matter how balanced it is.

Though, I try to run a balanced team set up. It works a good portion of the time (so long as the areas aren't lame and require some gimmick to beat them). However, I run a build with six heroes and inactive player who just follows me around like a lost puppy. Considering I don't actually play the game as much anymore, all I do is run into enemy mobs, Alt+Tab and come back a minute later to see the enemies mostly dead. Well, here's the basis of the AFKway setup:

Player 1: Whatever you want.
- Hero 1: Motivation Paragon.
- Hero 2: Protection/Smite Monk with Signets
- Hero 3: Artificer Signet Mesmer
Player 2: Whatever you want.
- Hero 1: Minion Master.
- Hero 2: Ether Renewal Infusion Elementalist.
- Hero 3: Necro Healing Monk or Ritualist depending on the area.

It's pretty much just 6 heroes doing their thing without player characters monitoring them (or even helping out). The skills I use vary depending on the campaign and area. Rarely do I swap out the heroes, but it does happen from time to time (swapped out the minion master for another smiting Monk in the Desolation for Nightfall).

The key to successful vanquishing though, isn't really in the build, but more on aggro control and pulling. There's a lot of people who say Sabway just doesn't work for them and the like, but really, they're just players who don't think. Just analyze the game and play through your analysis. It sounds like common sense, but I honestly don't see many people practicing that.

Anime Divine · Dec 18, 2008, 08:03 AM // 08:03

so why do you want to make it hard for yourself.
define a gimmick build.
if someone finds a perfect setup for vanquish that buildsetup will become a gimmick so i dont really see why you not run sabway or discord.

when i set my goal for legendary vanquisher i did not told myself oh i dont want to bring sabway or discord cos it boring. so ill just waste my time what 2/3 hours a vanquish with my non gimmick build if i fail oh well.. NO my goal is to vanq as fast as possible. only way 3 necro/rt (NOT sabway cos there are many varients) heroes 1 mesmer hench 2 healer hench and mage hench
even better 6 necros no monks. have fun.

daze · Dec 18, 2008, 09:20 AM // 09:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anime Divine

define a gimmick build.

Gimmick build = Cookie cutter build = A build that was created by a skilled build creator that is perfectly balanced to be able to withstand > 90% of any scenario you may encounter.

eg: 6 hero discordway has massive spiking, tons of healing, hex/condition removal, lots of great prots, > 10 exploding minions. In other words it has every possible base covered which is suitable for any area.

[build=Curser with shambling;OAhkUsG6hGGUMTVlColA70uzRVyF]
[build=Hex remove heal;OANDUrptSxMVVKgGNTftERgyEA]
[build=Minion master;OABDQatmSxMVVVBoBLCKVJgdCA]
[build=Prot with shambling;OANDUrpvSxMVVKgHVBE1D3VyEA]
[build=Restore life;OAhjUoGYIPxsqaGbcKNHmTuLGA]
[build=Restore recovery;OAhjUoGYIPxsqKxjaLNHmTuLGA]

that is the team build i use. granted it is not the build to beat all, but the beauty of discordway is you have flexibility to swap out a few skills to fit your playstyle/area/profession.

SkekSister · Dec 18, 2008, 10:08 AM // 10:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pocketmancer

There's a lot of people who say Sabway just doesn't work for them and the like, but really, they're just players who don't think. Just analyze the game and play through your analysis. It sounds like common sense, but I honestly don't see many people practicing that.

Great big bucket of truth this. Even my RL friends who play GW sometimes exasperate me with their unwillingness to actually spend a minute or two thinking about why they are failing at a particular Quest or vanquish and how to overcome it. Look at what makes you fail and find a counter. Not rocket science is it.

Cebe · Dec 18, 2008, 10:31 AM // 10:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dae GW

I want to become a legendary vanquisher, and well yes, i cán actually vanquish, done multiple hard area's already ( Eotn, desolation etc. ) But i was searching what are popular ( non gimmick like sab/discordway ) balanced builds and team setups for your heroes.
I was thinking about 1 warrior, you send him in the mob and he tanks, while i ( monk ) protect him. 1 Fast cast interrupter/hardress. And one minion master necromancer.

If you want to try to think outside the usual dark green box then I congratulate you. It's almost refreshing to see someone wanting to look for other options rather than just taking the same old necro builds which are handed around like sweets.

What you seem to be doing there, though, is what we in the trade call "tank-n-spank". It's slow, it's cumbersome, and it's also just as boring (*opinion alert*). I also suspect that with a hero Warrior getting it to "tank" is no easy task.

If I were you, the first thing I'd consider is passive defense. Think Ward against Melee/Elements, Aegis Chains, Defensive Anthem, "Save Yourselves!" etc... This will relieve pressure on the Monks and still allows you to pack a bit more punch.

Blind is also a great tool in Hard Mode. Massive pressure is put on the team from physical enemies; blinding these foes helps greatly to reduce the damage you take from them, and therefore you stand a better chance of killing them before they kill you.

Knowing the area is also very important. If you know there is high amounts of enchantment stripping, then don't rely on too many enchantments; similarly if you know there are bosses who are hard to bring down, plan for that. Tailoring your builds to the situation is of utmost importance, and what's more, keeps you actively thinking about your team's build and how it all works together.

legacyofkain85 · Dec 18, 2008, 11:29 AM // 11:29

u talk about 1 warrior as in hero warrior ,well it's simple dont use melee heroes they aren't as good as caster heroes,if u want physical dmg take paragons or rangers altho paragons could dish out more dmg.In the end if u want balanced u wuld need to have well a balance between dmg/healling -protting/support .what i would bring always is a minion bomber,its not just for dmg from [death nova] but it keeps mobs from atacking your party and atacking your minions insted.

daze · Dec 18, 2008, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Tank and spank advice

This method is definitely outside the box now a days. A couple years ago it would be called a cookie cutter method because everybody was doing it until people found more effective ways of dispatching.
Tanking and spanking will surely have you changing your build every time you change regions (shiverpeaks, maguuma, kryta, desert)

Also you may want to pack a lunch as the "old ways" will have you taking out mobs one at a time by pulling flagging and kiting. So get ready for > 1 hour vanquishes.

The upside to doing it the hard way is you will probably obtain a better understanding of alternate professions skills than us Necrowayers since you will be rebuilding your players over and over to trial and error said areas.

Hey, if you end up finding the right non-necro player build combo to master these areas, you might even want to save your builds and then get them posted on wiki or something.

So basically if you have the patience for it, i say go for it. I strive for originality but i also like efficiency, and with me efficiency > originality.

Just a heads up though. If you like to bring MM, you will want to either make a minion stealer or dont bring one all together for maguuma jungle and parts of southern shiverpeaks because enemies steal minions.

p.s. These so called "gimmick builds" like sabway, discordway, racway and even cryway are only big because of one fundamental reason. The reason is because they work extremely well. I do hope that another even better "master of all" build will arise from the ashes. If one does, you watch and see. For the first few weeks people will all jump on it as it is such a great thing, but after it becomes so popular that people seem to be exclusively using it you will see it be labeled as another cookie cutter gimmick.

Haxor · Dec 18, 2008, 12:04 PM // 12:04

Random HM semibalance which I just made up:

Frontline:
Generic moebius blossom and erf shakur
[Earth Shaker][Crude Swing][Whirlwind Attack][FGJ]["I am the strongest"][Flail][Enraging][Death pact signet]
[Golden Fox Strike][Wild Strike][Death Blossom][Moebius Strike][Critical Agility][Critical Defenses]["I am the strongest"][Death Pact Signet]

Midline:
Generic splinterbot support, Generic minion bomber, Generic SS support + optional
[Optional][Power drain][Leech signet][Ancestor's Rage][Splinter Weapon][Life][Protective was Kaolai][Flesh of My Flesh] (Optional is either [Expel Hexes] or [Tease])
[Foul Feast][Animate Bone Minions][Jagged Bones][Death Nova][Infuse Condition][Aegis][Protective Spirit][Signet of Lost Souls]
[Spiteful Spirit][Reckless Haste][Mark of Pain][Enfeebling Blood][Order of Pain][Dark Fury][Mystic Regeneration][Signet of Lost Souls]

Optional midline:
One of the following: generic imbagon (human), generic smiter, generic broad head ranger.
[Swift Javelin]["Save Yourselves!"]["There's nothing to fear!"][Ebon Battle Standard of Honor][FGJ][Focused Anger][Aggressive Refrain][Signet of Return]
[Reversal of Damage][Smite Condition][Smite Hex][Castigation Signet][Leech Signet][Optional][Rebirth][Divine Boon] (Optional is either [Tease] or [Expel Hexes])
[Broad Head Arrow][Savage Shot][Distracting Shot][Apply Poison][Dwarven Stability][Lightning Reflexes][Epidemic][Resurrection Signet]

Backline
Generic HB and PnH.
[Patient Spirit][Dwayna's Kiss][Ethereal Light][Dismiss Condition][Cure Hex][Optional][Optional][Healer's Boon] ([GoLE] + [Heal Party] for humans, [Leech Signet] + [Power Drain] or [GoLE] + [Castigation Signet] for heroes)
[RoF][Peace and Harmony][Shield of Absorption][Protective Spirit][Spirit Bond][Aegis][Optional][Optional] ([GoLE] + [Guardian] for humans, [Leech Signet] + [Power Drain] or [GoLE] + [Castigation Signet] for heroes)

AoE hate from the frontline, defense and support from the midline, massive condition and hex removal, decent backline which should be able to keep everything up. Keep in mind this is just something I threw together on a whim, just try it if you want to see if it works - I have no idea.

zelgadissan · Dec 18, 2008, 03:26 PM // 15:26

I ran Discordway for maybe 5% of my vanquishes on the way to Legendary Vanquisher. If I wasn't running with guildies, the team setup I almost always used was (I'm a mesmer BTW):

[Dunkoro;OwYT04nCRSjoBcTDZ4uKgoeY6DA]
[Olias;OANFQSxG21nzStKgHQDV1ORAxoB]
[Acolyte Jin;OgUSc5MTFHuSOBPGqGVgwGCA]

I know the MM bar is a giant unsynergizing mess but it works (PvE is a beauty)

Past that I mainly took a healer henchy and then as many physicals as I could find. For example in Nightfall it was Mhenlo, Devona, Gehraz, and Sogolon.

kostolomac · Dec 18, 2008, 03:40 PM // 15:40

There are no balanced builds for pve , especially if you use pve skills.
OP , your build is quite slow since tanking in GW is bad , warriors can dish out insane damage or provide good support with Earth Shaker. And killing beats interrupting in pve.

Cebe · Dec 18, 2008, 04:07 PM // 16:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by kostolomac

OP , your build is quite slow since tanking in GW is bad , warriors can dish out insane damage or provide good support with Earth Shaker.

Whilst this is sound information, it certainly applies to human played Warriors. I doubt Hero Warriors can intelligently dish out high levels of DPS or put thought into how they use skills such as Earth Shaker.

kostolomac · Dec 18, 2008, 05:42 PM // 17:42

Sorry , didn't see OP was a monk. In that case I don't know.

gwen armor · Dec 18, 2008, 06:07 PM // 18:07

well, if you don't want sabway or other great way...
Just study what kind of mob are in the zone.
Take a minion bomber flag it to tank, there will be a hall to protect you.
As a monk, you can take protect skill & pve skill like "ebon vanguard assassin", "you move like a dwarf", "finish him".
Then you can bring 2 more heroes, a searing flame + rodgord ele with messmer interupt for energy, and last any caster you want.
Take 4 henches, 2 monks, and 2 optionals
Just make a few fights, go back home to adjust your skill and team and go again to fight for fun ^^

Ps. sorry for my poor english, i'm foreigner...

AtomicMew · Dec 18, 2008, 06:23 PM // 18:23

I also agree that melee heroes are a complete waste. I thought with the hundred blades and grenth buff that they could be useful... and while they do nice damage, an SS nec would probably do the same amount of damage (or more) and offer more support at the same time.

I take melee henchmen, because I think aggro seperation is useful for times when you don't have minions. Also, I think that the melee henchmen are the best of the lot; it's not like you can nerf auto-attack damage with bad skill bars, and Devona has backbreaker and is awesome under dark fury.

-Lotus- · Dec 18, 2008, 08:09 PM // 20:09

As a caster you really cannot run a balanced hero team. A balanced team requires a frontline, midline and backline. and the AI is incapable of playing frontline. If you had a warrior/derv/sin you might be able to run something like a blanced team (althought it would be slow. but as a caster you havve to run a gimmick build that somehow gets around the problem of not having a frontline (i.e. sabway)

Dae GW · Dec 19, 2008, 06:45 AM // 06:45

Ok guys, i just want to clear something up:
You are talking about time, well time really dousn't matter me because i'm not going to play 24/7 vanquish. I'm doing PvP most of the time atm. And when there are just scrubs in HA or my guild dousn't do GvG i vanquish an area. And i have run sabway/discordway in Some area's already. It goes fast, but it was sooo boring, you don't have to do anything. While i just want to do stuff so i don't get bored. That's why i want a balanced build. It might be hard, but it keeps me from being bored.

Anyway
Thanks for the advices ( for some of you )

Zomgyogi · Dec 19, 2008, 07:15 AM // 07:15

I vanquished all of Cantha + Elona using sabway/discord combo and me(monk) healing/proting, which was kinda boring. Then after a few in Tyria I switched over to an Assassin's Promise build and blowing chit up is very fun

. I am still using a sabway + discord combo heros, but with the AP build VQ is more fun and fast. Can't post the builds right now, but if you are interested I can post them tomorrow or Saturday.

Super Igor · Dec 19, 2008, 10:25 AM // 10:25

Forget balanced, get three RoJ monks and win pve. Or at least make sure to have one somewhere.